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Tuner question
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3684		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  FrankC [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:40 am ]
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Are Waverly tuners really $100 better than Grover 18:1 tuners or is this just a brand trying to differeniate themselves by calling themselves the "high class" tuner? If the machining is alike, you can get grovers, add a set of Bill Nichols custom knobs in ebony or whatever, and still save 50 bucks!
Author:  arvey [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:44 am ]
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I Have always herd that Grovers are 90% the quality of Waverly's at 25% the cost. Waverly's are an option on my guitars and only once has someone upgraded to them. That being sdaid I have been having quality problems with the Gold Plated grovers and others have said the same. I would say that at least 25% of my Gold Grvers have been replaced.   If you get Grovers check them out before installing to make sure they are good, smooth gears and tight.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:46 am ]
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I suppose that is subjective. Waverly's are very finely crafted to very high tolerance and made with top quality materials. Grover’s are well made to good quality control. both will go a good job but imo Waverly's are the best you can put on. Now the question is, is the best worth the money to You?

Kind of like asking is ivory better than bone.MichaelP38657.532962963
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:59 am ]
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I've used 2 sets of Waverly's so far and one set of Grovers. Unfortunately, I can tell a distinct difference.
Author:  John How [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:04 am ]
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My experience with Grovers is similar to JJ's. I notice some slop in the gears and have had one fail, skipping a gear occasionally. There is a big difference in price though so you can take your chances or fork out the $$. I am hoping that Gotoh will come out with an openback tuner one of these days.
Author:  arvey [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:38 am ]
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The nicer thing about the Grovers is that if you get a bad set they will be replaced. No question Waverlys are better but my feeling is I leave it up to the customer if he/she feels they arrent the extra cost. I haven't had problems with the Nickle grovers but the Gold I have had problems with Slop and gears no meshing nicely. THey were replaced with no questions asked. It also seems that when Grover first came out with them the Quality was right up there, Now the Quality isn't quite as consistant. I'd take them over the Schellers or Gotohs though.
Author:  old man [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:46 am ]
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This is my first guitar so I'm at a loss here. I have purchased a set of Schallers for this one, but I haven't seen much said about them. In light of Richard's comment above, though, have I made a mistake? I've got one chrome set and two gold sets with ebony buttons. Very expensive so I hope they aren't on everyones taboo list.

Ron
Author:  RussellR [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:10 am ]
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Ron we used alot of Schaller tuners in Europe they are absolutely fine. I think Grover and Gotoh are great Value.

Waverleys are really nicely made but of course you have to pay for this. If you think you could go through 4 set of grovers before you hit the cost of Waverleys.

It is horses for courses, but for me if you are looking for a low cost workhorse tuner Grover, Schaller and Gotoh all make fine tuners.

I have had trouble with one set of Gold Grovers, but one Phone call later and I had another set send to me.
Author:  John How [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:30 am ]
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I didn't mean to give the idea that Grovers are no good. Just that my experience has been a little slop and one failure. You can go thru quite a few sets for the price of one Waverly so you decide how to go. I have also heard that Grover stands behind their product. I have used quite a few sets myself as well.
Author:  CarltonM [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:25 am ]
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[QUOTE=MichaelP] Kind of like asking is ivory better than bone.[/QUOTE]

Oh, no!! Waverlys are endangered?!!!

Ron...Schallers are good machines, and they'll give you good service. In my limited experience (with sealed tuners only), though, I've found Gotohs to be just as good, and less costly. I also like Gotoh's array of button options (I wish everybody offered those small oval buttons!). I've also found Grovers to be good generally, but their quality control isn't as refined as Schaller's or Gotoh's.

For those who've had to get replacement Grovers--are you dealing directly with Grover's U.S. distributor, or a vendor? Are they making you return the faulty machines before sending replacements? If so, that's an important time/postage issue that would make me think carefully before making an initial purchase.
Author:  arvey [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:25 am ]
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Schallers are good tunners, I say I would take the Grovers because they are just as good as the Schallers but cheaper. The other problem with the Groversd is that if you want to change to Waverly's down the road the holes are a different size. Might not matter mind you.
Author:  Bill Greene [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:31 am ]
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I have yet to build a guitar, but as a player, there is no comparison between the two: Waverly's, period. Money notwithstanding.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:35 am ]
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I have had no probles with Grover's sealed backs but like John I have ad small issues with open back. I use Grover's as my standard closed back tuner, but most clients that want open back specify Waverly's
Author:  RussellR [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:16 am ]
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HI Carlton

I got mine replaced from the USA, they didn't want the old ones back in my case, because of the cost associated with shipping from UK to USA. They just took my word for it and shipped me a whole new set from the USA at their expense.

That to me is great service.

We have a little company in the UK that make tuners called Rodgers, and these things are really the roll royce of tuners, they start at about $500 a set, if you can even get them as there is often a waiting list.

I wasn't trying to imply that waverleys are not worth the money they are beautiful tuners, and on high end builds I have used them and have always been delighted by the quality.
Author:  HankMauel [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:33 am ]
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[QUOTE=John How] My experience with Grovers is similar to JJ's. I notice some slop in the gears and have had one fail, skipping a gear occasionally. There is a big difference in price though so you can take your chances or fork out the $$. I am hoping that Gotoh will come out with an openback tuner one of these days.[/QUOTE]

John (and group)...Gotoh does make open geared tuners! Exceptionally nice in either the paddle head OR slot head configuration, in a variety of finishes and several button choices.
I have used these for several years now without a complaint. They are 1/4 the price of Waverly, so darned close in quality that the difference is negligible, IMHO, and if you want later in life, Waverlies would be direct replacement (shaft diameter and footprint). See AllParts for a source in the USA.
Author:  arvey [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:38 am ]
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I bought my Grovers through Stew Mac and when ever I have had a problem I called Stew Mack and they sent replacements, didn't ask for the old ones back. I will have to check out the Gotoh open back tunners though if they have better quality control. Mind you the Gotohs are still almost three times as much as the groversarvey38657.6984259259
Author:  John How [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:40 am ]
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Thanks Hank, I have been looking hi and low for those. I'll give them a call.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:18 am ]
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I use Schallers and Gotohs, and have been very happy with both brands. If a client wants to spend the money on a name, fine. Personally, I've never cared much for Grover steel string tuners.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Parames B [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:04 pm ]
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[QUOTE=RussellR]
I have had trouble with one set of Gold Grovers, but one Phone call later and I had another set send to me.[/QUOTE] Russel, did you have to return your old set in exchange before they sent you the new one?
Author:  Parames B [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:20 pm ]
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[QUOTE=RussellR] HI Carlton

I got mine replaced from the USA, they didn't want the old ones back in my case, because of the cost associated with shipping from UK to USA. They just took my word for it and shipped me a whole new set from the USA at their expense.[/QUOTE]

That's really great service. I would contact them if mine faces any problem. ParamesB38658.0694560185
Author:  CarltonM [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:39 pm ]
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[QUOTE=RussellR] I got mine replaced from the USA...That to me is great service.

We have a little company in the UK that make tuners called Rodgers, and these things are really the roll royce of tuners.[/QUOTE]

Russell,

You're right, that is excellent customer service from Grover! Yeah, I've visited the Rodgers web site. It's almost as drool-inducing as a gallery of great high-end guitars! And just as affordable!
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:14 pm ]
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I have had the same experience with the Grover open back tuners as some of you. On some the shaft is so sloppy that the threads will not engage with the wheel. I bought 4 sets from Stewmac and I noticed this after I had mounted the first set on a guitar. I then checed each tuner, and found that between 2 and 5 from each set was in similar condition. The replacements were OK, service from Stewmac was smooth as always. I think I will try the Gotho's next time, I've been happy with their closed back tuners in the past.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:23 am ]
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When talking about the Grover open back tuners, make sure which one we are talking about. Grover's best open-back is the 18:1 ratio Sta-Tites and I have found them to be almost as good as Waverlys. The old style Grover tuner was not as good.
Author:  arvey [ Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:17 am ]
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Yes the Grover 18:1 are the ones I am talking about. I used the old ones once and wasn't impressed. Stew mac only sells the 18:1 so anyone who got them from there is talking about those. I have only had problems with the Gold lated Grover 18:1 tunners. The Nickle ones were, as you say, almost as good as the Waverlys. The gold ones that were good were also almost as good but I have had some bad sets in gold.
Author:  Don A [ Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:31 am ]
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Thanks Hank. I think I'll try the Gotoh's as the ability to interchange with Waverly's is real plus. Anyone know if Gotoh has a dealer/builder program?
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